OS X for x86

[mipadi]

Anyone who has been following recent computing news undoubtedly knows that Apple will be shifting their computers from a PowerPC architecture to an x86 (specifically, Intel) architecture in the next two years. I'm curious as to what you all think: do you think Apple might be preparing to release OS X for commodity PC hardware in the next few years? If you could dual-boot Windows and OS X on your existing PC, without the need to buy (expensive) Apple hardware, would you do it?

[Merlin]

Im not quite sure if i would do it due to the fact that OSX has been based off of proprietary (sp?) hardware . and there will no doubtably be alot of hardware conflicts in the OS and running some of the software.  

[mipadi]

I highly doubt that, actually. The only thing really proprietary about OS X is the processor. If it ran on Intel, there'd really be nothing proprietary about them anymore. Macs use standard RAM, standard hard drives, and can deal with ATi and nVidia chipsets.

Darwin, which forms the core of OS X, runs on both Mac and PC hardware, so I doubt there'd be many problems, if any. Besides, I'm sure Apple's engineers would easily iron out any driver issues.

[acemaverick1381]

This has been something that has mainly lead me against Mac for a long, long time. They should release OSX for the PC, and they should have done it a long time ago. I hear people complain about how Apple isn't getting enough respect for their systems (let it be known, that I don't mind the system itself. It is a very powerful machine) and their software. And considering they came out with the iPod mini, when it would seem more appropriate to comeback with a new version of the Newton, Machintosh's version of the PDA. Considering now that Palm is out of the mix until Palm OS 6 is released, and once again PC type PDA's are in control, it would be good for them to mix it up with their own PDA, but no, we need a smaller version of a mp3 player, including storage space, and make it cost a little less..

Well considering the world is dominated by PCs and most of them run Windows, imagine if Apple released OSX for PC and a company like Dell or Gateway picked them up and started selling their PCs with OSX installed on it, sorta the way it is right now, only with Windows.

Now, I know there are the types of hacks you can do to get OSX instaled on a PC, but at the end of the year, you get what, 150 people at most using OSX on a PC because Mac didn't do support when they should have?

Do you realize the money that could be made by Apple just by selling OSX install discs for a PC, and let alone that it would be pretty conceivable for a company like Dell/Gateway/IBM whoever to pick them up.

If Apple does deciede that they will do this, my opinion of them will greatly rise, and I would probably even pick up a copy, but I would have to run KDE with A LOT of hacks to get rid of any "bubbly" sense.

Please anyone, don't take offense to any of these comments, I'm just looking at an overview, and a "what if" status. I truly believe if Mac were to put OSX out for PC, they would achieve a greater status. However, I also believe that (if it happens) they should have done it a long, long time ago. This has been something thats been on my mind for quite some time, and its nice to get it out.

[mipadi]

Dell has already expressed an interest in selling PC's with OS X, as a matter of fact.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050616112923.shtml

[acemaverick1381]

And read the quote right underneath it by Jobs himself:

Steve Jobs has made it clear that Apple is a hardware company, not a software company, and doesn't want to market the Mac OS as a standalone product for fears it would lose the "total package" integration provided by a closed-loop system.

For someone that is greatly concerned about how insecure Windows is as Steve Jobs, it bugs me for him to say that Mac is not for PC, and giving it a "superiority" feel. It comes off as Jobs saying "God forbid that OUR software run on a HORRID PC! Poor OSX is to great to run on something that we at APPLE did not build!" If he wants Mac to expand, why would the company not put Mac out for PC? That quote is practically the opitimy of why I am not a Mac fan.

[neb1211]

There are several things that Apple can do to prevent the average consumer from running Mac OS on a regular PC (such as proprietary motherboards) but they will not be able to keep Mac OS off the PC forever.  Like any piece of software it can be cracked.

[acemaverick1381]

Yes, there are programs out that there will do that. Kevin Rose posted about one on his blog about a month ago. My point is that if Mac would release their OS for PC they could market it, and make a lot of money. Right now, (in my mind anyway) they come off to be some really pompous and arrogrant freaks.

[mipadi]

And read the quote right underneath it by Jobs himself:

I did read the quote. It doesn't really mean a whole lot--obviously, it would be bad for business if Jobs announced now that OS X will run on commodity PC hardware.

Besides, I'm guessing most of his quotes on the issue are old--back from around the time when Jobs said OS X would keep running on PowerPC's.

[acemaverick1381]

It is already bad businness for him. That fact that he didn't want OSX released for PC is crazy to me. Why wouldn't he? More money...more companies picking him up... Does he not realize that Sun, a company that tried to make hardware and software is now practically failing? (I'm sure you agree that they make great hardware and a great OS)

I don't understand the business ethics behind it, in fact its almost degrading. Its no wonder that Mac people can get the rep of being "superior" and such. And if he can't back up what he says now, even though somethings are changing such as the x86 move, that starts to bug me even more. He could at least give an outright statement concerning the issue that doesn't make them recieve a "superior" rep.

[mipadi]

The official reason is that Apple makes its money from hardware--it is a hardware company. The operating system is used just to sell the hardware.

Personally, I don't agree with that statement. That may have been the way Apple did business at one time, but times change, and a good company will evolve to meet the demands of the market.

As for now, I agree that it doesn't make good business sense to not release OS X for generic x86 hardware. They might take a hit in hardware sales, but I think they could make up for it in the sheer volume of software sales. Hey, Microsoft does fine, right?

I think even if Apple did that, they could still sell hardware. People would definitely still buy PowerBooks. PowerBooks are great laptops. I know a lot of Windows users who bought one just because they are so nice. And I think people would keep buying Power Macs, too--if they were Intel based, which they will be. I mean, people still buy Alienware PC's, even if they can buy cheaper PC's, so I imagine they'd buy Power Macs, too. Not as many as Apple sells now, of course, but a lot of people would still buy them.

[neb1211]

Like mipadi said, while hardware sales may take a hit, they would probably still be able to sell their computers.  Apple does have one thing going for them in terms of hardware which is their unique style.

However, if Apple did make its OS available to pc users, they would be faced with a new problem, piracy.  Right now, that problem is fairly small due to the OS only being able to run on apple computers.  Mac OSX doesn't even require a serial to install at this point.  If the Mac OS was made available to pc users then Apple would have to spend a lot of time and money finding new ways to prevent piracy of its software.

[acemaverick1381]

I agree, Apple makes good hardware. I'm not crazy for the way the computers look themselves, but the system itself is nice. And of course people will still buy their iMacs, PowerBooks and all. They might not sell as much, but as you said, they could definately make up for it in their OS sales.

As I said before, Sun was a monster in the computer industury. They have been 64bit longer than anyone else, for over a decade. They decieded to stick with selling their systems with their OS, and they have declined greatly over the past years. Their prices too, aren't that great, but its definately a message to the computer industury. (Notice now that Sun is working on Java based OS's to run on PCs. I believe that WalMart sells them at a cheap price)

You are right, good companies should evolve to the world around them, but they also need to get a reason for why. What has bugged me is it has taken Jobs so long to realize that "hey, Mac OSX for the PC might not be too bad after all". I know that he wanted to keep the software and hardware related, but when people in the company take the issue of Windows insecurity to task, and not release it for PC, thats what really turned me off to them.

And if it does happen, I probably would pick up a copy of OSX. I'd like to see how it ran on a PC.

[tomalakborg]

Hmmm, anyone see the osx86 thing floating around bittorent? I've tried it, and I can say that it sucks. It's a proof of concept, but nowhere near finished. Still, I can't wait to rip me a copy of the x86 osx when it's in full swing.

-Bill